The Myth of ‘I AM’ Exposed

John 8:58 [Jesus saying "I am"]

 

By: Shahid Bin Waheed شاهد بن وحيد

 

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

الحمدلله رب العالمين والصلوة والسلام على اشرف الانبياء وسيدالمرسلين نبينا محمد صل ا لله عليه وعلى آله واصحابه وازواجه اجمعين - امابعد

Thanks to be Allaah, Sustainer of the Universe, and blessing and salutation to be the most distinguish of the Messengers and foremost among the Prophets, our Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allaah be on him and on his wives, children and Companions.

 

Before any claim from the Trinitarians is even considered debatable, we must examine what the early Church fathers of Christianity have said about John 8:58! Let us examine some reference, which are inconsistent as we notice.

John 8:58 - NIV, NAB - in Epistle of Ignatius to the Tarsians

And how, again, could such an one declare: "Before Abraham was, I am?”

*John 8:58 - NIV, NAB- in Irenaeus Against Heresies Book IV

But the Word of God did not accept of the friendship of Abraham, as though He stood in need of it, for He was perfect from the beginning ("Before Abraham was," He says, "I am"

**John 8:58 - NIV, NAB- in Fragments from the Lost Writings of Irenaeus

And as He was the son of David, so was He also the Lord of David. And as He was from Abraham, so did He also exist before Abraham.

John 8:58 - NIV, NAB - in Origen Against Celsus Book VIII

for we believe Himself when He says, "Before Abraham was, I am."

John 8:58 - NIV, NAB - in A Treatise of Novatian Concerning the Trinity

But although it is not possible to maintain that one who is himself mortal can make another immortal, yet this word of Christ not only sets forth, but affords immortality: certainly He is not man only who gives immortality, which if He were only man He could not give; but by giving divinity by immortality, He proves Himself to be God by offering divinity, which if He were not God He could not give. If Christ was only man, how did He say, "Before Abraham was, I Am? "

John 8:58 - NIV, NAB - in Pseudo-Gregory Thaumaturgus Twelve Topics on the Faith

How could it be said that the Son of God who is before the ages, and He who has appeared in these last times, are different, when the Lord Himself says, "Before Abraham was, I am; "

** It must be interesting to point out that Jesus flatly repudiated the Jews when he asked them: “How could David call him- ‘my Lord” if he were his son?” The following verses from the Gospel of Matthew are evidence that Jesus is not the one whom David is calling “my Lord.”

Matthew 022:041! While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 022:042 Saying, What think ye of Christ? Whose son is he? They say unto him, the son of David. 022:043 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 022:044 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 022:045 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 022:046 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Top Ten List According to Bible Rejecting Jesus’ Divinity!

1.     Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." [This confirms that Jesus preached to worship One and Only God, not trinity.]

2.     John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God. [Jesus has a God according to him; we know that God can’t have a God?]

3.     John 8:28 Jesus said, "I do nothing of myself” [Can a God be this dependant?]

4.     John 14:28 Jesus said, "My Father (GOD) is greater than I am" [So, how can Jesus himself be a God?]

5.     Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit" [God does not have spirit like Jesus did.]

6.     Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows. [Or Jesus was lying to his followers, if he was God?]

7.     John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he couldn’t do a single thing of his own. [When a God became this helpless?]

8.     John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice. [Or Jesus was lying again here, if he was God?]

9.     Luke 5:16 Jesus prays to God. [Funny, if Jesus was God, then why he is praying to God? Since when and how a God has a God?]

10. Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD like Muslims do. [How would you explain this from the very Bible?]

CHECKMATE WITH:  John 17:3 and the Only True God! “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

Notice: That the top ten list contains explicit verses and/or words uttered by Jesus himself. Unlike John 8:58, which is vague, ambiguous and implicit verse. I also ask Trinitarians to produce the original verse in original language it was allegedly inspired to verify for authenticity and correctness of meaning? That is why we also we that early Church fathers of Christianity don’t agree to each other.

Beside the facts cited above exposing the myth and falsehood perpetrated by Christians using John 8:58, I must present following undeniable proof from “Proverb and Jeremiah” against this absurd claim showing “I am” is no more than an ordinary I am and/or you are. The following shows that all mankind was created even before earth and heaven, therefore, nothing special about Jesus as falsely claimed by Christians.

Proverbs

 

008:022 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 008:023 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 008:024 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 008:025 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 008:026 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 008:027 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

 

Jeremiah

 

001:004 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 001:005 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

Also a blind man referred to himself as "I am" in Jn.9: 9:

Paul said, "By the grace of God, I AM WHAT I AM" (1 Cor.15: 10).

Are these two gods as well?

Suggested sites for further study:

Westar Institute

Other On-line Resources

§         Kata Iwannhn (The Gospel according to St. John). Verse by verse parallels of 4 versions of the Greek text, the Latin Vulgate and 9 English translations) [from The HTML Bible]. 

§         The Gospel of John. Peter Kirby reviews recent scholarship regarding the problem of the authorship of this gospel, with links to many on-line resources [from Early Christian Writings].

§         Johannine Literature on the World-Wide Web. Felix Just's comprehensive bibliography of electronic publications on the fourth gospel.

§         The Problem of the Fourth Gospel. Complete text of H. Latimer Jackson's 1918 classic [posted by Early Christian Writings].

§         The Sociology of Secrecy and the Fourth Gospel. Jerome H. Neyrey's sociological analysis of the semantics of John [posted by author].

Friday, May 06, 2005

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